INTERVIEW: Six Politicians Answer Six Questions (Singapore Politics) (fourth quarter, 2010)

Mr Yaw Shin Leong with Dr Kieran James, Vietnam Eatery, 233 Joo Chiat Road, Singapore, 5 October 2011

SIX POLITICIANS ANSWER SIX QUESTIONS

Interviews in fourth quarter of 2010 with Dr Kieran James (University of Fiji)

Cast of Participants:

1 Dr Chee Soon Juan is Secretary-General of Singapore Democratic Party and author of a number of books on the Singaporean social, economic, and political situation including The Power of Courage (2005) and A Nation Cheated (2008). He has been a consistent campaigner for human rights, civil liberties, and workers' rights in the island state for the past 20 years since he contested in the Marine Parade by-election in 1992 against Goh Chok Tong. Responses were from a personal interview with Kieran James in the SDP headquarters off Upper Thomson Road, Singapore, 14 October 2010.

2 Mr Steve Chia was Non Constituency Member of Parliament from 2001-6. He contested the Pioneer SMC for National Solidarity Party at the May 2011 General Election (winning 39.3% of the valid votes). He is author of the book Called to Serve. Responses were received by email on 17 November 2010.

3 Mr Chia Ti Lik is a former member of People’s Action Party Youth and Workers’ Party. He is now Secretary-General for Socialist Front. Responses were received by email on 15 December 2010.

4 Ms Glenda Han Su May contested the last two General Elections on a Workers’ Party GRC ticket. In the May 2011 GE she was part of the East Coast GRC team which won 45.2% of valid votes. This team was the losing opposition team with the highest percentage of votes in a GRC. She presently works in Hong Kong. She campaigned in the 2011 poll on a fly-in, fly-out basis. Responses were received by email on 23 December 2010.

5 Mr Low Thia Khiang is Secretary-General of the Workers’ Party of Singapore, long-serving former Member for Hougang SMC, and current Member for Aljunied GRC. Responses were received by email on 23 October 2010.

6 Mr Yaw Shin Leong became the Workers’ Party MP for Hougang SMC at the May 2011 GE after achieving a +2% swing towards him at this poll. He is the author of a political book in the Mandarin language which he distributed in Hougang SMC during the May 2011 GE campaign. Responses were received by email on 5 October 2010.

Dr Chee Soon Juan & Dr Kieran James, SDP Office, 21/2/2011

Kieran James: Question One: Explain the events in your life that caused you to become an opposition supporter?

Dr Chee Soon Juan: I guess it was during my late teens when I started; I read a bit about [the] Graduate Mothers Scheme, it got me a little upset at what they [the Establishment] were trying to do, the social engineering. I left for the US for a decade until 1990 then I threw my hat in with SDP, Marine Parade by-election against Goh Chok Tong.

Chia Ti Lik: I was inducted into politics into Young PAP first. This was a progression from my involvement with the PA’s YEC from my activities at the Community Centre. When I found that strengthening the PAP is not going to help the nation I decided to run against the PAP. Originally I wanted to have independents contest the PAP in wards where the opposition did not want to go. But as the people I spoke to wavered I decided to go it alone and joined WP instead. I left WP because of their controls on expression on the internet. I started SF [Socialist Front] when I found like minded individuals who believed that a political party must have an ideology which will bind them in principle.

Glenda Han Su May: I first started being interested in politics when I was living in France 2002. The French are very passionate about politics and it dawned on me I didn’t know very much about my own country’s politics...and that didn’t seem right so I delved deeper into it. It was a natural progression to join politics because I’m someone who is very pro-active if I wanted to get something done rather than sit on my laurels and complain about things and I feel that many aspects in PAP’s governance can be improved. Why the opposition? I wasn’t quite in agreement with the kind of bureaucracy when I started my own business in 1999 so the idea of joining PAP never appealed to me as I always see them as too stifling.

Low Thia Khiang: Please refer to:

http://enquirer.sg/2009/01/19/overcoming-the-deafening-silence/

Yaw Shin Leong: In 1986, when I was in Primary 4, I started reading communist-inspired materials. The idealistic notion that every man is equal was highly captivating. My late dad, a nationalist KMT sympathizer, (he graduated from National Taiwan University) objected to the materials I was reading, citing that ‘共产主义没人性’ (‘communism is inhumane) and literally threw away all those communist-inspired materials. My curiosity was ignited and I wondered how could that be? How could an ideology that aspired for an equal society be claimed to be inhumane? There must be a reason for my dad to object so. It was an introductory lesson on political contradictions and ideologies. After 4th June 1989 (Tiananmen Incident), I finally understood where my dad was coming from. During GE 1991, I was glued to the TV set when the General Elections results were being announced. The victory speech by WP’s Low Thia Khiang stood apart from the rest. He uttered these famous words “This is (then) the beginning of the next lap!” (I believe he said that in relation to Goh Chok Tong’s the next lap vision for Singapore) Low Thia Khiang’s words made a mental imprint in my young mind.  In GE 1997, I was one of the tens of thousands of Singaporeans who watched the unfolding electoral drama of Cheng San GRC. PAP’s bullying tactics were big turn-offs. From that point onwards, I have picked my side (and from 2001 onwards, specifically the WP’s side).           

  

KJ: Question Two: What do you think are the strengths and weaknesses of SDP (or the opposition party you are most closely involved with)? (This question was only asked to one participant as it was replaced by Question Six and Supplementary Question One for the other participants.)

YSL: The strengths of WP: (a) Historical legacy, since 1957, (b) Dedicated activists, (c) Parliamentary presence, (d) Recognized heartland branding. The weaknesses of WP: (a) Organized ground network weakness (vis-à-vis) the incumbent, (b) Lack of Financial Resources, (c) Shortage of qualified (minority) candidates, (d) Limited Main Stream Media coverage.    

KJ: Question Three: What do you think will happen to Singapore politics in next 10-15 years and how many seats will the opposition win at next election?

CSJ: It will be an upward trajectory in terms of democratic development. If you look at things happening with the rise of the net and demise of LKY (his presence has been a downward factor on political development in this country) and when you take into account a combination of factors you get a more helpful outlook. I think 18-20 seats are realistic in ten years. By that time you will see significant changes in the political landscape. For this election [May 2011], if you talk about a democratic environment where people are free to campaign and people are unafraid to tell their views, you are talking about an autocratic system like in China and Vietnam. You are not going to get an accurate answer. The whole system is stacked against the opposition. It does not lend itself to any educated prediction. We are very much at the mercy of how they will redraw the boundaries, it's a crazy situation. We are not talking about changing a street here or there, we are talking about absorbing SMCs into GRCs or breaking GRCs into SMCs. 

Steve Chia: 10 - 15 years is a long time. I don’t want to be too optimistic, and get disappointed. The results will all depends on whether the PAP government plays a fair fight, or will they take even more drastic manipulative actions to gerrymander the GRCs and the electoral process. Until I see the removal of the electoral department from the Prime Minister’s office, I am not too hopeful. As for the next GE [May 2011], we can never predict. WE can only HOPE that the opposition movement can capture at least 1 GRC and a few SMC. Will we achieve it is a big question mark.

CTL: This is anybody’s guess. I think the opposition will make progress in the coming elections. The number of seats won will be difficult to assess as the boundaries have not been confirmed and the opposition candidates are unable to confirm their candidacy for whichever ward.

GHSM: It will be presumptuous for me to say how many seats the opposition will win in the next election but with changes taking place, such as more SMCs being carved out and more capable people stepping up to the challenge, the political landscape in 10-15 years time will definitely be a lot more participative than the current one.

LTK: PAP will remain as ruling party unless it becomes corrupt and lose the trust of Singaporeans.  While more younger Singaporeans would go into politics and join opposition parties, total opposition strength remains weak but would make some incremental progress.

YSL: Change is inevitable. Continual political development (towards the standards of first world’s democracies) for Singapore is a sure thing. More seats to the opposition will be but a natural course in the context of nation building. I do not wish to speculate on the specific numbers of seats the opposition will win though at the next elections. Let’s put our trust upon the collective wisdom of Singaporeans. The PAP is aware of this and has tried all means to delay political development, via schemes such as the expanded NCMP scheme.    

KJ: Question Four: What do you think of SDP Youth and internet political activism?

CSJ: Frankly speaking I will be very interested to know the effect of internet. This is the first time the internet will be used by the opposition especially SDP. If the policies don't change what we are intending to do is campaign in a big way through the net, not by choice but because the [mainstream] media is not there at all - whatever we can use to leverage our relation with the public we will use it. But this is still out of left-field. People are still afraid to click on the [SDP official] website. The unafraid are a very small percentage.

SC: It is good. It helps spread the alternative cause, and hopefully, more people [are] educated to the needs for a more democratic society.

CTL: The SDP youth are a vibrant lot. A lot of potential. Someone should guide them to greater heights.

GHSM: I think the internet is an extremely useful form of media to conduct political activism. People don’t just rely on the mainstream publications these days. You can find out so much more about the different parties, what they stand for, the activities carried out etc. so it’s a great way to try to connect with this group of people.

YSL: I have no comments on the SDP Youth. On another note, generally, internet political activism in is brewing in Singapore.   

KJ: Question Five: What do the opposition parties need to do to go from 25% to 50.1% and what type of people makes up that next 25% that opposition must win over?

CSJ: It will have to be the younger generation, the 20-somethings, maybe beyond that [i.e. those voters older than twenties]. These are the people that are going to be exposed to alternative views floating around on the net. I am saying these people as compared to the older generation in their 60s and 70s who are tied down to getting info [information] from the traditional media. That [20-somethings] demographic will continue to grow. They are more internet savvy. People - young people - know how to set up websites etc. I think that generation 30s to 40s [is a] different kettle of fish.That will be the demographic - if change is going to come it will be through them. In other jurisdictions you can base analysis on exit polls. Here we are just grappling in the dark. Anyone can make this kind of analysis but is there any empirical evidence on this? How scientific is this? Intuitively you [would] think the lower-income [voters] are for us but when they [PAP] offer vote-buying...so we are not sure. Exit polls are banned. [As for] telephone polls I'm not so sure...but people [would] wonder if it is someone calling from the PAP so they [would] get frightened.  

SC: It is not just what the opposition needs to do - to go to 50.1%. It is what the PAP government had failed to do. Generally, Singaporeans don’t vote for the opposition. They VOTE AGAINST THE INCUMBENTS. If the PAP had failed the people badly, then even without doing anything, the opposition will get to win. That said, the Opposition candidate and party that is contesting to win must show Credibility, Character (i.e. Charisma), and Competence. With these key characteristics, the voters will probably vote with more confidence for the opposition candidate - even if the incumbents are doing not too badly.

CTL: The people who are critical of what they see. They are also the ones who have succeeded or prospered under PAP rule. They would need to be convinced by the opposition to give their vote to them.

GHSM: I can’t say what all the opposition parties need to do but I think we at WP just have to keep on doing what we have been doing and continue to show the populace we have been consistent in our performance. We have to win over the swing votes, the minority races, young adults, [and] those aged 60 and above...

LTK: Minority race and Singaporeans age[d] between 21 and 30 and age above 60.

YSL: (a) Singapore’s political middle, (b) The economic middle-class, and (c) Existing PAP supporters. 

KJ: Question Six: If there was a ‘hung parliament’ in future within Singapore (e.g. PAP 45% of MPs, WP 30%, SDP or SDA 25%) would you consider a coalition government with PAP or with another opposition party?

SC: If there is ever a 1st “hung Parliament”, it will be between a weak PAP and a strong non-PAP alternative. If we are that strong non-PAP alternative, then it is [neither] possible nor likely that the 2 strongest part[ies] unite together to form a coalition. If we are one of the smaller and weaker part[ies], then we need to examine who has invited us (PAP OR non- PAP), what is their manifesto, their STRENGTH, abilities, and a host of all other factors before deciding which boat we will align with, if we even consider to align with in the first place.

CTL: This is a hypothetical question. I think it will be a long way to go before we get a hung parliament. However, given the fact that it will take some time before we get to a hung parliament, hopefully by then the PAP would have sobered up and humbled. My choice would depend on which party I perceive would run a better government.

GHSM: That really depends on the performance and elections outcome.

LTK: Depending on which opposition party has the next higher % of vote to form the govt and whether the coalition would have a safe margin to provide a stable govt during the term of Parliament.

Dr Chee speaks, 7/5/2011, George Yeo concedes on TV

KJ: Supplementary Question One: What is your viewpoint towards minimum wage and unemployment benefits within Singapore?

SC: It is good to study how we can apply Minimum wage in Singapore. But we need to consider whether it applies only to Singaporeans and PRs only, or to all work permit holders too? Many Singaporean households will be up in arms if they have to pay their household maids at the minimum wage too. Same goes for the manual low skilled construction and shipyard workers, do the companies also pay these foreign work permit holders at the minimum wage too? The above are my personal opinions. Hope it help clarifies. And sorry for the delay. Steve Chia.

CTL: The subject is very large and encompasses many side issues. Until our party is able to address the issue in full I would prefer not to make any remarks that will restrict my party’s future stand.

  

GHSM: I am not entirely convinced that implementing a minimum wage works well as that skews market demand and supply in the free economy. In the case of Singapore, our labour structure varies across different industries and having a blanket minimum wage may incur long term costs as a result. I think more specific rulings and schemes can help the lower income earners. For e.g., in the F&B sector, we could redirect the 10% service tax, which goes to the restaurants, to the waiting staff instead so their basic wage is supplemented with tips from the customers. The loss of the 10% revenue to the restaurants can be offset by the reduction of the waiting staff wage. The staff in turn may even earn more as they up the service standards, increase productivity etc. I don’t think it is difficult and take long for such a practice to be accommodated and adopted by customers.

LTK: I am of the view that Work Income Supplement for low wage workers is a better system than minimum wage. S’pore will need some form of unemployment insurance scheme to protect the family in the event of economic down turn resulting in unemployment.

KJ: Thankyou very much to all the participants.

INTERVIEW: Interview with Mr Yaw Shin Leong (ex-Workers' Party), 5 October 2011

Mr Yaw Shin Leong (left) and Dr Kieran James, Vietnam Eatery, 233 Joo Chiat Road, Singapore, 5 October 2011

My interview with Mr Yaw Shin Leong (ex-Workers’ Party of Singapore)

By Dr Kieran James (University of Southern Queensland),

Personal Interview at: Singapore, 5 October 2011 (interview transcript as amended by YSL on 24 & 25 October 2011)

Mr Yaw Shin Leong became the Workers’ Party MP for Hougang SMC at the May 2011 GE after achieving a +2% swing towards him at this poll. He is the author of a political book in the Mandarin language which he distributed in Hougang SMC during the May 2011 GE campaign. As at the date of our interview he was still serving in his capacity as Workers' Party MP for Hougang SMC. Mr Yaw was fired by the Workers' Party and the Party then won Hougang SMC convincingly at the 2012 by-election.

Roderick Chia celebrates WP wins, 9/5/2011

Kieran James: Was the Workers' Party happy with the results of the May 2011 General Election?

Yaw Shin Leong: Before every single election the Party sets out political objectives and I’m glad to say we achieved all the objectives set for this GE. If you examine from another perspective, SPP [Singapore People’s Party] deployed somewhat similar strategy [as WP] but the execution is different. (Both incumbent MPs stepped out of their respective SMCs). Uncle Chiam See Tong announced his intention to leave Potong Pasir two to three years before the GE but LTK [Low Thia Khiang] said nothing until the Nomination Day itself. The preparations took a long time though. The SG [Secretary-General LTK] had his own internal view.

KJ: When do you think the SG first had the intention to contest a GRC?

YSL: Preparations may be traceable as early as 2001 or 2002. He cannot just leave Hougang like that or we will see disastrous results, we need to build up mechanisms and grassroots.

KJ: This is a history question. Explain to me how and why you became politicised on the opposition side of the fence.

YSL: My late father used to share with me stories about Soong dynasty and Three Kingdoms so it led me to think about what it means serving your country, loving your country, [and] what does it mean to come forward to serve your country. As a young child I didn’t know how to serve my country. I realized later there are ways to serve your country.

As a result of seeing a lack of political balance in Singapore I decided I must do something for my country. In 1997 I remember when Mr JBJ [Jeyaretnam] was at Cheng San Stadium. He said: ‘Here is the police report I made against Goh Chok Tong and his people’. For this sentence he got a legal suit. It made me wonder: What sort of system do we want to live in? [KJ note: The 1997 GE was also a strong motivator for Goh Meng Seng of NSP.] This incident led me to decide which side camp I wanted to be in. In ’91, when LTK won [Hougang SMC], I remember LTK said ‘this is the beginning of the next lap’. I was a 16-year-old boy, the warm and fuzzy feeling was I wanted to be part of that next lap although that was an abstract concept for me. In 2001 I was helping Mr JBJ. JBJ offered me to join the WP. I declined at that time. I joined after JBJ handed the leadership over to LTK. He is a moderate. I can identify with his vision. I joined 24 June 2001. Aljunied GRC, my team was disqualified unfortunately [01 GE].

KJ: Can you give me some further comments on the 2011 GE?

YSL: The results have met the Workers’ Party’s internal political objectives. The results are not even as important as what we can do now to strengthen the foundation of what is already built, to strengthen the democratization process beyond what has already been done. A seed has been sown; a break has been arrived at. For the first time in Singapore’s short political history we broke the PAP’s GRC hegemony. Those people involved need to be diligent and focused and serve with all our efforts for the betterment of the country.

KJ: The percentage increase in the vote in Hougang indicates the community there has a high opinion of you.

YSL: I attribute the percentage increase not so much to myself but to the very foundations which LTK has laid down for Singapore’s democratization process and all the things he has been doing all these years. The people in Hougang understand the importance of what the Workers’ Party is doing. They put the full support behind the candidate.

KJ: What are the Workers’ Party’s plans for the next five years?

YSL: It’s about deepening the connections between the people and the party; understanding local issues and national issues; entrenching the Workers’ Party’s particular gain this year; and leveraging the party for further gains next time. Within that there are detailed plans.

The nation must address policies which are unjust. We have [seen] the HDB form a commercial entity with Keppel Land forming EM Services. With EM Services they took over management of some pre-booked housing and let out to foreigners and Singaporeans. I’m concerned about local Singaporeans. Workers’ Party must speak out against unjust policies. I spoke out on my blog. A journalist followed up on my blog piece with a well written news piece and HDB promised to review the rental model; this is progress before parliament even begins. I hope something good will come out of this. My concern is with Singaporeans needing to pay so much more for renting from EM Services not from HDB. My heart beat is for my local countrymen and women. The Government must put the interests of Singaporeans first following the slogan of Dr Tan Cheng Bock ‘Think Singaporeans First’!

KJ: Why was the Workers’ Party silent during the presidential election in August of this year?

YSL: In the first place the institutionalization of the elected presidency is to protect the incumbent Government if they lose power; they have a friendly force to check on the new government, that was the political intent. It should not be the case. The presidential system should revert back to its former ceremonial one. The party’s stand is not for an elected president. It seems Workers’ Party supporters voted either for Tan Cheng Bock, Tan Jee Say or Tan Kin Lian [KJ smiles at this statement], that is the sensitive thing to say.

KJ: Is Workers’ Party only interested to contest in its heartland in the north-east?

YSL: There is never a strong geographical area without decades of cultivation of the ground. In 1961 [by-election] David Marshall won Anson, that [effect] manifest again in 1981, we recaptured Anson. [Regarding] the geographical area for Workers’ Party there is a Hougang spill over effect as people understand the branding of the Workers’ Party vis a vis LTK’s strong showing as a parliamentarian. Heartlanders can identify with the style of Mr LTK and Workers’ Party.

Before we can learn how to fly we must learn how to run. From a natural strategic perspective it’s always good to have adjoining boundaries to our heartland. I stay in the west. My standard reply to my neighbours who ask ‘When will WP come to the west?’ is: ‘WP will not come soon to the west as we need time to build up infrastructure and support’. It will not happen overnight. In the east the people are familiar with the Workers’ Party over decades. If Anson had been kept there might have been an Anson spill over, call it Hougang effect and Anson effect rather than Hougang and Anson spill over. Let the people decide which seats can be won next time. It’s not for the Workers’ Party to say.

KJ: Why has LTK been so successful?

YSL: Mr LTK has been in politics for some 30 years, he was election agent of JBJ. Some might say his greatest achievement was Aljunied [GRC]. I think his greatest achievement is continuing to survive for 30 years in politics. People know the brand name of his style of politics. He is rational; he speaks when it is necessary to do so. His cautious style of building up Workers’ Party bit by bit and member by member has contributed to what he has built up. He survived the Government putting down his points, sometimes in condescending manners.

KJ: Did the Workers’ Party suffer from the loss of three key members Chia Ti Lik, Goh Meng Seng and James Gomez?

YSL: People come and go; organizations always have their forms of renewal. No individual is indispensable for any organization. An organization must be able to withstand loss of individuals due to different political aspirations. It is a fact that JG, GMS and CTL left Workers’ Party before 2011. In 2011 Aljunied [GRC] still gave ringing endorsement to the candidates, [this fact] speaks volumes.

WP campaign poster, Aljunied GRC, May 2011 GE

KJ: Has the Workers’ Party restricted your online activities as GMS and JG claim this was the reason for them leaving the party?

YSL: It’s always easy to attribute reasons to courses of action but... I’m very active online with blog, Facebook and Twitter. There is no party regulation stopping me posting or engaging with people who post on my blog. I had no issues or problems with that.

I consider myself an activist/ partisan activist rather than a politician. It’s important for every single movement to have a group of activists having a similar purpose who can galvanize the ground and attract volunteers who are not activists. The role of activists in any societal transformation is crucial.

KJ: Thank you very much for your time.

YSL: Thank you

[Start 2.10pm, end 3.20pm]

Kieran James' note: Permission was given for this interview to also be published at THE ONLINE CITIZEN.

Kieran James Note (17 November 2014): We know Mr Yaw Shin Leong has disappeared underground because of events which have happened since this interview took place. On this day three years ago he was gracious, charming, courteous, and very helpful. I never saw him again. I hope that he can continue to support the Singapore opposition cause from a distance and perhaps one day all will be forgotten and forgiven.